Lap timers

[gchislett]

Talk to me about lap timers. What should someone be looking for? Are there specific kinds to avoid? Is an "XT Lap Timer" supposed to be any good?
For the people who have them, what do you like/dislike about your model. What features do you have, or wish you did?

I'm hoping to find something for next season, but don't want to spend a fortune on it.

[sfong]

Surprised no one has replied. Even though it's late here my summary based on method of lap recording.

1) Beacon based. These are timers that rely on on breaking some kind of infra-red or radio beam. Pro: cheap (low $100's) and accurate. Con: pain in the ass to set up beacons especially for sector times and don't give extra info for driving analysis.

2) Accelerometer based. They use "G-meters" and try to back calculate speed, distance and location. Pro: measures data for driving analysis, fairly cheap (mid $100's to $1000), easy to setup. Con: inaccurate times and data from measurement and back calculation errors.

3a) GPS based. Use GPS to measure locations to calculate times, speed and locations. Pro: good accuracy on times and for driving analysis. Con: from expensive ($1000+) to really expensive ($3000+++) for pro level stuff.

3b) Cell phone GPS/accelerometer based. Phones have all the hardware now and just needs an app for that. Pro: got a phone, cheap app (sub $100). Con: not sure how accurate.

If all you want is lap times, beacon based is the cheapest. They are also sometimes required for certain racing series, so it would make sense to get the mandated equipment. I'd skip the accelerometer based because of the accuracy issues, and the ones that are good quality are going to be around the same price as cheap GPS timers. I would highly recommend a GPS based unit for the extra datalogging that can be used to analysis driving technique and car tuning. The important info for recording is lateral/longitudinal acceleration, speed and location. Also, it is really helpful to compare data to other drivers/cars to get tips. If you have a smartphone, the apps are cheap enough just to try. Of course if you go all the way the more expensive dedicated units are going to be more rugged, options (like engine data logging, extra sensors, video integration etc.) and software for data analysis.

[gchislett]

Wow! Thanks Steve. What's the unit you have? I'm not sure how much I want to spend on it yet, but that information is extremely useful.

Thanks!

[sfong]

I've had a RacePak G2X ( http://www.racepak.com/Road_Racing/G2X.php ) and have a Traqmate ( http://store.traqmate.com/ ) now. They are both the "affordable" versions of the GPS based dataloggers. A lot of the Solo1 guys have the G2X and I know that Ian, James and I (S2000 guys) have the Traqmate. They are both good units. The G2X has a better dashboard, while I like the Traqmate's analysis software more.

What's great about both of these units is that it is easy to set start/stop and sectors by setting GPS co-ordinates on track. They also give real time lap times on the dash displays. Using apex speeds and lateral G's, it's fairly easy to see if you're extracting the most out of the car. I like seeing it's possible in the data first before finding out that the car won't hold at 180 kph at the Kink. BTW aero and data suggests that my car should be able to do 170 kph around the Kink although my best so far is 160-165 kph. The s/w can also show your line, and with sector times, it can be used to experiment with controversial turns like Temptation. Try out a bunch of different lines, check out the sector times afterwards to find out the best for you and your car. Also it is so helpful to compare to other drivers. Say get a really fast guy and be able to see where all the time is to get or see where other people are faster or slower than you.

[Quicksilver]

Are you getting all that info from the Traqmate or G2X or both?

[ScotcH]

Are you getting all that info from the Traqmate or G2X or both?

They'll both do it.

[gchislett]

That's the kind of comparisons that I'd like to do.

Where do you recommend buying them? I've purchased a car in N Carolina but haven't imported it yet. I should be able to have it sent to the vendor and have it 'included' in the purchase price of the car.

[wing]

You can buy the traqmate stuff at the shop located at Mosport.

Gateway Racing Inc
Blaise Csida
3233 Conc.Road 10
Gate 3
Bowmanville, ON L1C3K6
Canada
905-983-6454

[sfong]

Traqmate has an online store, but also has a list of dealers on the web site. RacePak, just Google it.

You can try the software for free. Download it with the example data and see if it does the analysis that you want.
http://store.traqmate.com/Try-it-Now-FREE-s/120.htm
http://www.racepak.com/downloads/

Note that having the data is a tool. Still have to put some effort to get the full potential out of it. The things that I posted above regarding "170 kph" being the max corner speed for the Kink, is an estimate based on testing. The software doesn't tell you that. Just to give you an idea how I guess at things like this.
- Skidpad test gives around lateral 1.2G. Baseline for mechanical grip on a flat ground with my setup.
- Because I'm a wimp on high speed corners, one of earlier attempts at the Kink gave around 1.05G @ 150 kph.
- Knowing that 1.2G should be possible and guessing any adverse camber could be compensated with aero, go ahead and slowly increase the cornering speed. One of the fastest attempts had a small lift entering giving 1.2G @ 160 kph. That turns out to be worth around 0.5 seconds over that corner vs. 150 kph run.
- Say that's around 10 kph for every 0.1G. The car felt stable with the aero grip, so I'm guessing that 1.3G is possible so around 170 kph corner speed, which for me suggests that I can go flat into the Kink. That isn't true anymore with the power upgrade since the last measurement though I also know I don't use all the track so increasing the turn radius could push up the cornering speed even higher. There's probably a few tenths yet to get for me in that corner.

[gchislett]

WHAT? There's work involved? Nobody told me there'd be work. sigh...

Seriously, that's still cool stuff. I'm going to have to donate a lot of time to this.

Thanks again for the info.

[BBQMAN]

Hey Geoff, before you jump the gun, I will have a new gps lap timer to introduce in January.
Something along the lines you were looking for. GPS based, predictive lap times, all in one unit- under $400.

I will have more details in January.

[gregor]

Hey Geoff, before you jump the gun, I will have a new gps lap timer to introduce in January.
Something along the lines you were looking for. GPS based, predictive lap times, all in one unit- under $400.

I will have more details in January.

Now we're talking. I'm very interested in this too.

[gchislett]

Hey Geoff, before you jump the gun, I will have a new gps lap timer to introduce in January.
Something along the lines you were looking for. GPS based, predictive lap times, all in one unit- under $400.

I will have more details in January.

THAT'S what I'm talkin about!

[BBQMAN]

I saw the prototype at PRI and was impressed. The units should be ready for sale late january.
I will confirm it all soon.

[gregor]

this what you're talking about?

http://autoanalyser.wordpress.com/2010/ ... r-319-cdn/

[BBQMAN]

No , not really.
That model seems to be interesting as well, but it is based on a gadget the G Tech has been selling for years.
I am talking about a smaller version of a kit from a company that has been producing data aquistion and lap timing for years.

Unfortunately the models in question are not yet on the website, even if I saw them at PRI and are in their print 2011 catalogue.

The brand is AIM Sports and the model is called Solo.

More on this in January.

[donmcl]

Hi all,

I was looking at getting a videovbox for video + lap/sector times.

But the ability to predict what my car should be able to do would be *very* helpful. (I know I'm a wimp in the kink - from marshalling I've seen too many cars lift-steer into the wall.) If I can get a combo of this prediction + audio/video + lap/sector times I'd be in heaven.

BTW, it is Feb 2011. Got any updates on that new unit?

Don

[yanrider]

Standing by for new GPS timer also! Also, I've used a demo Racelogic from Speed Merchants @$499), worked great, has some data features but runs on lighter plug power only. But you can connect to laptop or remove SIM card to use on laptop...I then compared the iPhone lap timer to it, and they where within a tenth of each other.

[schmoo]

An AiM SmartyCam would is something to consider, too. I'm sure it can be attached to an in-car read-out. Whether it could do predictive times is a question, but I suspect "no" without a MyChron or MXL dash in the chain.

[catana]

Speedmerchants / Kanata Ford motorsports has the racelogic unit for $499. I'm looking into getting it, seems like it is pretty good, probably not all of the functions of a traqmate but its half the cost, so depends what you are looking for.

http://www.speedmerchants.com/collectio ... ata-logger

[yanrider]

Oh really! I'd love to try one of those!

Speedmerchants / Kanata Ford motorsports has the racelogic unit for $499. I'm looking into getting it, seems like it is pretty good, probably not all of the functions of a traqmate but its half the cost, so depends what you are looking for.

http://www.speedmerchants.com/collectio ... ata-logger

[RandomHer0]

Any input or thoughts on RC? Specifically the Basic?

http://www.mh-motorsports.com/lap_timers.shtml

[BBQMAN]

Hey guys, I know you been waiting quite a bit for the announcement but unfortunately the supplier -AIMsports- has been delayed yet again with the release of the SOLO and SOLO DL.

I saw them at PRI and they showed promise with a $399 retail price. The problem is that AIM it seems is having issues sourcing the plastic casings for the units.
Last week they said at least another month but at this point I am not holding my breath.

Sorry to make you wait.

[donmcl]

Hi All,

I did a lot of looking. It seems for the combination of ODB-II info, plus GPS tracking, plus video, that the Video VBox is still the top of the heap.
I'm not 100% committed yet, but I'll probably be getting one of those.

Don

[eyemaster]

It would be nice to have. I'm waiting to hear more...