Who wants to come to Quebec city?

[Frenchmanremy]

This friday, I will be heading out to quebec city to trade my car towards a 1997 miata.

Here are some photos the guy sent me, I'd enjoy knowing if any of you can spot a problem with the car, or something that looks off.
It's never been winter driven, 1997 without the PEP, so no torsen.
The dual exhaust has been disconnected, I don't know why, but the second side is basically only there to fill the hole in the bumper..

the part I'm concerned in, is that it looks like the frame-rail is dented underneath, maybe that's just me though.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1024192188 ... directlink

thanks for anyone's help! oh, and if someone wants to keep company for a 5 hour drive, you're more then welcome to tag along!

[Chris_A]

I'm not familiar with these cars so I may be wrong but... and it may just be the light in the photos but...

It looks to me that the two "uni-rails" that run the length of the car have been beat to shit. Been off-road and on its belly much?

Is there another local car you can compare against?

Again, I don't know these cars. Maybe the engineers at Mazda like to make unnecessarily complex steel stampings for their unibodies? They certainly spent enough time messing with rotary engines.

What's the ask for this car?

[Frenchmanremy]

A bit more detail about the car is in order.
Never winter driven
American car, so, 78'000 kms.
1.8L
Asking 6500
It does look like the rails have been hit, But It may be the light and the angle, I'm not sure.
They look solid though, no rust, no holes.

I plan to purchase this as soon as I get the car to strengthen it and protect it.
http://flyinmiata.com/index.php?deptid= ... r=13-69010

[Chris_A]

Personally, I wouldn't buy that car.

The rigidity has been compromised too much in beaming and torsion... even before you add the stiffening plates. Not to mention how the car will accordion even more than the stock car if involved in a crash. I wouldn't even buy it for a non-competition, Sunday run about to be honest.

Be patient, these aren't rare cars.

Sorry to shit all over it but I'd rather see you disappointed than make a bad impulse buy.

2¢

[mphysk]

You can do much better for $6500.
Something weird must have happened to the car to bash up the frame rail that much

[JGraves]

Crushed frame rails are not a rare occurance on these cars as it's pretty easy to beat them up on speed bumps, by using them as a jacking point, etc. My street car isn't bad but I've seen other cars in worse shape than this. The FM frame rails (and butterfly brace) make a great improvement in the stiffness of these cars but they're a bit of a pain to install, even on a good car. They fit tightly over the factory frame rails so you would have to hammer this car's rails back into shape before installing. Not a job I would look forward to although I would prefer it over dealing with a rusty chassis / shell.

From the photos, the car looks good on the surface but a bit rough on the underside for the mileage and you should be able to do much better for $6500 or buy a similar car for far less. I'd guess the dual exhaust hack was only done to put a second exhaust tip in the cutout of the body kit. The car was also cleaned very thoroghly before the photos were taken so I'd be a bit concerned about what we're not seeing in the photos.

[GoesFilled]

Funnily enough - the frame rails bend pretty easily.

I put a long dent along the length of mine when it scraped on a trailer. The middle section, especially, is quite soft.

That said - I KNOW what did it to them ( a little stupidity) so I'm not worried about it.

I'm going to pull the dent out int he spring and then add FM frame rails to stiffen it up.

[GoesFilled]

Finally got the pics to work - damn those frame rails are definitely much worse than mine... and I scrape over everything as I'm 3 inches off the ground.

I'd be more worried about the rusty bits - if it's a US car with no winters, there shouldn't be any rust to speak of.

[davet82]

walk away from that car..

-it only looks good because of the fresh paint
-too much surface rust for a usa car



bet a bowl of noodles that the mileage is wrong too

don't make that road trip

[Frenchmanremy]

Thanks for your imput guys!

The reason I'm interested in this car is not the price. The main reasons are, keeping in mind this guy's willing to to a straight trade for my mazda 3:

1. Cheaper on parts, insurance is about a third of the mazda 3
2. Easier to work on, maintain, less hassles
3. Perfect for autocross, huge forum base for used parts/advice
4. Cheap to run, dependable/reliable engine(if it wasn't, mazda wouldn't have run it for 8 years)

My car isn't gaining any value, and the rear suspension and shocks all around a going. Along with front window motors, wiper motor, and rust on body, well, my car isn't going to be cost effective in the next couple of years.

The mileage has been verified and certified by the oil changes done by mazda, and the guy apparently has all certifications and documentations.
The car is clean as far as carfax, and my insurance company saw no claims with the vin of the vehicle. The car's title is completely clean.

I realize, that no car is ever a win, never an investment, and always a loss. I also realize that both cars( mine and the miata) are out of warranty, and have some repairs coming. By doing this trade, I am looking at cutting my losses, and getting the car I want at the same time.

Being a quebec dealer, the consumer protections act does apply against hidden defects. It is unreasonable for me to be able to assess a car's structural integrity. Therefore, if it fails a quebec safety given somewhere else, I do have a recourse.

Edit: Dave, the car has been in Canada since 2002. Mazda USA has records for the car until 2002 for oil changes done. Oil changes four times a year, seems the old owner was meticulous, oil change december 1st, oil change april 1st, and another on july 1st and November 1st. Every year, with only a few hundred miles between oil changes.

[Frenchmanremy]

Here is a link to other advice that was given to me..

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=441999

[DEye]

For that price you can do better.

I did the frame rails on mine this summer and it's not that bad,a bit of hammering, about a dozen drill holes later it was done.

Offer em 4500.

[Protege2886]

Remy,

You can do better. I know that's frustrating to hear.
Of course the guy is going to be willing to straight swap for a mazda 3. Your car is in way better shape than his and appeals to a bigger market. Not to mention that you could probably sell your car for 5000-10,000 (I'm out of touch with mazda3 pricing these days).

For 6500$ I had found some pretty stellar miatas last summer. You just have to be patient.
Save and search over the winter, trade the 3 when the sunshine comes out and then go for it.

[B Greenaway]

As a reference Remy:

I spent close to that on my '97. ZERO rust anywhere, all the bolts I've played with so far (brakes, endlinks, swaybar bushings, some trim pieces) turn freely. Came with a CSC rollbar (same as a hard-dog if you're familiar with that, if you want to go lapping, you'll need one), coilovers, FM front and rear sway bars and it was a "Speedster" edition, so a torsen diff and gentleman racer wood shifter (THAT bits really important )

The paintwork is not as shiny, but meh. That one you're looking at is a lot less km however, provided you can definitely confirm that. Mine had 130k km with the timing belt and water pump changed at 100k. 2 week old brake discs, pads & fluid too.

Wouldn't say it's a bad car that you're looking at there, but then I don't know how much your 3 is worth either. I'd consider looking around a bit. Plus that red bumper kinda freaks me out a little.

Edit, I'll post up a few pics of my underside (fnarrr...). Including were I bent my feckin frame rail slightly from jacking...

[Frenchmanremy]

Yes please! Thanks barry!

If it does fail the rigorous quebec safety check that my insurance company demands, then the seller will be obliged to pay for any and all repairs to bring it to spec, or the cost of the car. This is the law in quebec, "garantie légale". It stated that any item purchased from a vendor has to have a reasonable length of life.. ie: it you sell me a car telling me it's street legal and A.OK, then it needs to be able to remain street legal for a certain amount of time within reason.

As I am getting the car inspected as soon as I get back, 1 day is not a reasonable life of item.

My car is probably worth 5-6 grand, Given the repairs, wear, kilometers, and options it has.

PS: I am not giving him my new starspecs, nor am I giving my DVD headunit or soundsystem,
He is getting the bare car.

[davet82]

The pic of the odometer smells like funk

take a good look at the gauges.. see if there are screw marks or other signs that it was rolled back

[Frenchmanremy]

I'm getting two different answers from two different forum boards......
I think I'll just go and assess the situation and either use it to my advantage to bring the price down or walk away.
I was told the flying miata butterfly brace and rail supports will correct the rough shape of the rails

[davet82]

people call them frame rails, but there's nothing FRAME about them, from the pictures someone was using them as jacking points, and didn't realize how soft they were.. as the stock mounting points are in decent shape

the stainless FM rails slip over the two channels (press fit them with a floor jack, or BFH them on) then are bolted through the floor
(i think this is version 1, as the triangles on the newer ones are on the bottom and sides.. but you git the jist)
http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?dep ... r=13-69010



the butterfly brace connects the two rails (some think they're great, others feel it's more hype)


949 sells a cheaper/lesser version
http://949racing.com/Miata-frame-rails.aspx

[Frenchmanremy]

all in all, what's the worst that can happen?
I plan to inspect the front end for signs of a collision,
and the overall car for any rust, holes, ect..
Any signs of it being messed with or cheaply fixed in any way..

[GoesFilled]

It's not THAT bad for 6500k.

If you're able to trade in your 3 as an even swap then it's not bad.

FYI - I paid about $9 for mine - 65k miles - suspension, s/c, seats, harnesses, roll bar, torsen, as well as the tire trailer & extra wheels / tires with Hoosiers.

[ayseven]

And from what you've said, an engine that fell apart whilst looking at it.

[Frenchmanremy]

lol, so no one wants to come down?

[eyemaster]

It's an OK car. Don't worry about those frame rails, they bend so easily. For a straight up trade, depending on how bad your 3 is, the Miata is probably worth a little less than the 3.

[Frenchmanremy]

I think I'll try to get some cash on top of the trade.
I'll play on what I know..

I'll check the rockers for rust, and bring a magnet to check for Bondo or filler.

If I get cash, it's worth it since I can get a decent hardtop for 500$, the FM braces, and maybe a few other things.

[Frenchmanremy]

Unless someone knows of a better one for sale.